[wsas-java-dev] positioning of wsas "embeddable" version

Sun Feb 11 20:50:50 PST 2007

Saminda has fixed it up to work on JDK 1.4 too.

Azeez

Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> Excellent! However we need to figure out a JDK 1.4 story too ..
> 
> Sanjiva.
> 
> saminda abeyruwan wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> The current release of embedded Tomcat is "apache-tomcat-5.5.20", and
> the zip distribution is approximately 3.1 MB, where all Jetty related
> jars sum up to approximately 1 MB.
> 
> With preliminary testings, we've started WSAS on Embedded Tomcat (JDK
> 1.5  {Need compatibility kit for JDK 1.4}), and the initial starting
> time of WSAS is approximately 9-11 Sec, when its come to Jetty is around
> approximately 18-20 Sec. Thus, we have a boost in startup time and the
> distro will gain in size.
> 
> Even it preliminary setup, Embedded Tomcat has shown improvements in
> performance (intuitive) than Jetty.
> 
> With props and cons, +1 to Embedded Tomcat distribution of WSAS
> standalone edition.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Saminda
> 
> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>>>> Definitely +1 for embeddable Tomcat. Will there be a majorly noticeable
>>>> change in the size of the distro?
>>>>
>>>> WS Container sounds like a good name for the servlet edition .. but I
>>>> agree with not changing the name again. Also, servlet edition is
>>>> accurate- it runs as a servlet! We can later do a say a JCA edition ..
>>>> which would run as a JCA connector (Paul had some ideas on how to do
>>>> this and IIRC did a proto too). (No hurry for this AFAIK but maybe
>>>> something to give like an intern to play with to build up. Paul?)
>>>>
>>>> MOST DEFINITELY +1 for making WSAS standalone edition top of the line!
>>>> There's no reason whatsoever why we can't become that next runtime
>>>> people run in their infra without question.
>>>>
>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>
>>>> Afkham Azeez wrote:
>>>>> Please Note: Embeddable version is now called WSO2 WSAS Servlet
>>>>> Edition.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also was discussing the possibility of replacing Jetty(We do not use
>>>>> commons HTTP) with embeddable  Tomcat. We observed that WSAS runs
>>>>> faster
>>>>> on Tomcat than with Jetty. Shall we switch to embeddable Tomcat and
>>>>> scrap the Jetty integration code? I'm sure Amila & Sandakith will jump
>>>>> in and help us :)
>>>>>
>>>>> +1 for placing more emphasis, in terms of marketing/PR, on the
>>>>> servlet-edition. An App Server which runs within an App Server sounds a
>>>>> bit weird. May be we can call the servlet-edition "WSO2 Web Services
>>>>> Container". We need to test it on more J2EE App servers such as
>>>>> Webshere/Weblogic, and improve the installer to include these servers.
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO, we should also develop the standalone edition to be a industry
>>>>> grade server. If JBoss/Tomcat can do it, certainly can we. Some people
>>>>> may want a lightweight container to simply host Web services.
>>>>>
>>>>> One other thing, it may not be too good to change the name of the
>>>>> product too frequently.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Azeez
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ajith Ranabahu wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> My perspective is that the embeddable version would be the more
>>>>>> appealing version for the enterprise customer (and even for the
>>>>>> average
>>>>>> developer. I'm sure most of the developers have tomcat or similar
>>>>>> servlet container running in their machines. Judging by the mailing
>>>>>> lists for Axis2 - which I believe is equally applicable to WSAS -
>>>>>> we can
>>>>>> definitely say the major interest is in the embeddable version. FYI
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> guys here didn't have a clue that Axis2/WSAS ships with a default
>>>>>> server!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would say the standalone version (at the current state) would be
>>>>>> appealing to a developer just to have a feeling about or perhaps
>>>>>> develop/debug on it for a while. But actual deployment is more
>>>>>> likely to
>>>>>> happen on an industry grade server, at least tomcat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a suggestion while putting the embeddable version in the front,
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> it be worth to have a more robust standalone version based on tomcat ?
>>>>>> I'm sure tomcat can be stripped down to a bare minimum and WSAS
>>>>>> attached
>>>>>> to it without much effort [We do have tomcat experts around. Both
>>>>>> Amila
>>>>>> and Sandakith do know all the ins and outs of tomcat :)]. This can be
>>>>>> shipped as a complete server package (of course with the modules
>>>>>> preconfigured) to any of the interested parties who want to start from
>>>>>> scratch. We can even admit that we are using the 'proven tomcat
>>>>>> platform', which certainly will be better received than commons
>>>>>> HTTP  :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ajith
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been wondering lately whether we're over-positioning the
>>>>>>> standalone
>>>>>>> version compared to the version that runs on top of
>>>>>>> JBoss/WL/WAS/Geronimo etc..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reason is that the standalone version is a disruptive story. That
>>>>>>> is, customers have to put up our *server* as a key part of their
>>>>>>> mission
>>>>>>> critical infrastructure. That's a harder sell than say putting up
>>>>>>> a bit
>>>>>>> of code in their already running server platform.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A HUGE advantage we have over the WS stacks of any *one* of
>>>>>>> JBoss/WL/WAS/etc. is that ours runs on all of them. Many customers
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> more than one of these app servers in production and having a single
>>>>>>> high performant WS-* stack that works the same on all of them
>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> quite valuable as they don't have to muck around with app-server
>>>>>>> specific details. This is especially awesome once we start performing
>>>>>>> better than JBoss-WS on JBoss etc..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you think? We need to work on adjusting the PR and
>>>>>>> messaging if
>>>>>>> we're to make the "embeddable" version more appealing ... starting
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> coming up with a better name for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wsas-java-dev mailing list
>>>>>> Wsas-java-dev at wso2.org
>>>>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wsas-java-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>
> 
>>
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-- 
Afkham Azeez
GPG Fingerprint: 643F C2AF EB78 F886 40C9  B2A2 4AE2 C887 665E 0760

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