[Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response formulation

Sat Oct 20 13:50:27 PDT 2007

Hmmm, then I wonder if the SOAP 1.2 response MEP and the advice on Accept
headers in the SOAP 1.2 Adjuncts spec [1] could have some implications.
Namely, that a SOAP 1.2 service that implements the SOAP Response MEP,
invoked by a client that ignores the MAYs and SHOULDs in that section and
doesn't provide a suitable Accept header, would be expected to would respond
to a envelope-free request with a SOAP 1.2 response envelope.  A client
might rely on this behavior.  Then when the REST/POX alternative is engaged
at the server, the client will find himself getting XML instead of SOAP
responses back.

I think the effect of this behavior would be to make the Accept header
mandatory for services that want to engage the new behavior.  Am I wrong?

Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com - http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Sanjiva Weerawarana
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 1:41 AM
> To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> Subject: Re: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response
> formulation
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Sanjiva.
> 
> Jonathan Marsh wrote:
> > Does Axis2 currently ignore the Accept header when receiving a
> message
> > without a SOAP envelope?  (SOAP Response MEP)
> >
> > Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com -
> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> >> bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Keith Chapman
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 7:49 PM
> >> To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response
> >> formulation
> >>
> >> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> >>> :) I like the penalty box model .. please help Keith out on axis-
> dev
> >>> when he posts it there! (Or Keith you can point to this thread ..
> >>> might be a better way!)
> >> I already dropped a proposal to the axis-dev list...
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Keith.
> >>> Sanjiva.
> >>>
> >>> Jonathan Marsh wrote:
> >>>> If we have to, though I don't like it much and it weakens the
> >> principle
> >>>> involved, which is to use the media type system in the most simple
> >> and
> >>>> direct way we can when we're playing REST.  The ambiguity that
> >> text/xml
> >>>> could describe either an XML document or that XML document wrapped
> >> in
> >>>> a SOAP
> >>>> 1.1 envelope (or any other kind of wrapper) makes the solution
> >> tricky.
> >>>> Occam's razor would suggest that text/xml represents the simplest
> >>>> alternative - the bare payload.  If in some circumstances it
> >> represents
> >>>> something else (SOAP 1.1) and the fact that those circumstances
> >> aren't
> >>>> externally visible, loses some of the simplicity of the proposal.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the end, we're trying to use (not abuse) media types.  If SOAP
> >> 1.1
> >>>> wanted
> >>>> special treatment within the media type system it should have
> >> defined a
> >>>> separate media type.  I think it's reasonable to send SOAP 1.1 to
> >> the
> >>>> penalty box for that violation when we're playing a REST
> tournament.
> >> I
> >>>> think the overlap between the community of SOAP 1.1 groupies and
> >> REST
> >>>> groupies is necessarily small (those who can live happily with
> >> cognitive
> >>>> dissonance) and therefore don't see much hope of keeping both sets
> >>>> happy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com -
> >>>> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> >>>>> bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Glen Daniels
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 12:50 PM
> >>>>> To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response
> >>>>> formulation
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> >>>>>> You'll have to ask on axis-dev and see whether people object.
> IMO
> >> its
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>> decent compromise but there are more SOAP 1.1 fans on that list
> >> than
> >>>>> here!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> +1 from me for both the proposed solution and asking about it on
> >>>>> axis-dev first.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is still a switch I can use in service.xml to disable POX
> for
> >> a
> >>>>> service/operation, right?  So if I set that then I always get
> SOAP
> >> on a
> >>>>> GET?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Glen
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Keith Chapman wrote:
> >>>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> >>>>>>>> +1 for forgetting SOAP 1.1 and doing it .. .
> >>>>>>> Great... Is this solution valid for Axis2 as well? If so I'll
> go
> >>>>> ahead
> >>>>>>> and implement this in Axis2. If there are multiple accept
> headers
> >>>>> will
> >>>>>>> use the first matching header.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Keith.
> >>>>>>>> Sanjiva.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jonathan Marsh wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> I'll throw out an idea - text/xml and application/xml would
> map
> >> to
> >>>>> POX,
> >>>>>>>>> application/soap+xml maps to SOAP 1.2, and we don't provide a
> >> way
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> do SOAP
> >>>>>>>>> 1.1 at this point in the browser.  Eventually we could
> register
> >>>>>>>>> "application/data-format+xml" and a request of
> >>>>>>>>> "application/data-
> >>>>> format+xml;rddl=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/r
> >>>>>>>>> ddl.html" (is that actually allowed in an accept header?)
> might
> >>>>>>>>> identify
> >>>>>>>>> soap 1.1.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com -
> >>>>>>>>> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>> From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> >>>>>>>>>> bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Keith Chapman
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:31 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic
> response
> >>>>>>>>>> formulation
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Paul Fremantle wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> A while back Glen suggested we use Accept headers to
> >>>>> automatically
> >>>>>>>>>>> send the right thing back to the browser / requester. I was
> a
> >>>>> bit
> >>>>>>>>>>> scared of this at the time :)
> >>>>>>>>>> While trying to implement content negotiation in Axis2 using
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>>> Accept
> >>>>>>>>>> header I came across the follllowing issue. When a REST call
> >>>>> (GET) is
> >>>>>>>>>> sent using the browser the Accept header is
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Accept:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>
> text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/pla
> >>>>>>>>>> in;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5".
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Now what should the response be POX or soap11?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Obviously I'd like to map text/xml to SOAP1.1 and
> >> application/xml
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> POX
> >>>>>>>>>> but then the above request using the browser would return
> SOAP
> >>>>> 1.1.
> >>>>>>>>>> (Which might not be user friendly and may mislead the user).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Due to the above I haven't yet implemented this feature in
> >> Axis2.
> >>>>> Any
> >>>>>>>>>> suggested workarounds or just drop the feature?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>> Keith.
> >>>>>>>>>>> However, I think I'm coming round to this. I guess one of
> the
> >>>>> key
> >>>>>>>>>>> RESTful design patterns is to have the web UI the *same*
> >> thing
> >>>>> as the
> >>>>>>>>>>> machine interface. I don't think we are there yet though I
> >> guess
> >>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>>>> are getting closer. I suggest that we bash back and forth
> >> some
> >>>>> ideas
> >>>>>>>>>>> about the exact URI design - in other words, what you see
> if
> >> you
> >>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> each different URI and what those patterns are. Glen - I
> >> think
> >>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>>> need to look at the APP spec in detail first.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Paul
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Registry-dev mailing list
> >>>>> Registry-dev at wso2.org
> >>>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/registry-dev
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Registry-dev mailing list
> >>>> Registry-dev at wso2.org
> >>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/registry-dev
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> 
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> email: sanjiva at wso2.com; cell: +1 650 265 8311 | +94 77 787 6880
> 
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform."
> 
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