[Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response formulation

Jonathan Marsh jonathan at wso2.com
Mon Nov 5 20:15:03 PST 2007 

Any status on this thread?  I'm still worried our approach might compromise
SOAP 1.2 interop.

Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com - http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Marsh
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 1:50 PM
> To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> Subject: RE: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response
> formulation
> 
> Hmmm, then I wonder if the SOAP 1.2 response MEP and the advice on
> Accept
> headers in the SOAP 1.2 Adjuncts spec [1] could have some implications.
> Namely, that a SOAP 1.2 service that implements the SOAP Response MEP,
> invoked by a client that ignores the MAYs and SHOULDs in that section
> and
> doesn't provide a suitable Accept header, would be expected to would
> respond
> to a envelope-free request with a SOAP 1.2 response envelope.  A client
> might rely on this behavior.  Then when the REST/POX alternative is
> engaged
> at the server, the client will find himself getting XML instead of SOAP
> responses back.
> 
> I think the effect of this behavior would be to make the Accept header
> mandatory for services that want to engage the new behavior.  Am I
> wrong?
> 
> Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com -
> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> > bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Sanjiva Weerawarana
> > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 1:41 AM
> > To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> > Subject: Re: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response
> > formulation
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Sanjiva.
> >
> > Jonathan Marsh wrote:
> > > Does Axis2 currently ignore the Accept header when receiving a
> > message
> > > without a SOAP envelope?  (SOAP Response MEP)
> > >
> > > Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com -
> > http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> > >> bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Keith Chapman
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 7:49 PM
> > >> To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response
> > >> formulation
> > >>
> > >> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> > >>> :) I like the penalty box model .. please help Keith out on axis-
> > dev
> > >>> when he posts it there! (Or Keith you can point to this thread ..
> > >>> might be a better way!)
> > >> I already dropped a proposal to the axis-dev list...
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Keith.
> > >>> Sanjiva.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jonathan Marsh wrote:
> > >>>> If we have to, though I don't like it much and it weakens the
> > >> principle
> > >>>> involved, which is to use the media type system in the most
> simple
> > >> and
> > >>>> direct way we can when we're playing REST.  The ambiguity that
> > >> text/xml
> > >>>> could describe either an XML document or that XML document
> wrapped
> > >> in
> > >>>> a SOAP
> > >>>> 1.1 envelope (or any other kind of wrapper) makes the solution
> > >> tricky.
> > >>>> Occam's razor would suggest that text/xml represents the
> simplest
> > >>>> alternative - the bare payload.  If in some circumstances it
> > >> represents
> > >>>> something else (SOAP 1.1) and the fact that those circumstances
> > >> aren't
> > >>>> externally visible, loses some of the simplicity of the
> proposal.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In the end, we're trying to use (not abuse) media types.  If
> SOAP
> > >> 1.1
> > >>>> wanted
> > >>>> special treatment within the media type system it should have
> > >> defined a
> > >>>> separate media type.  I think it's reasonable to send SOAP 1.1
> to
> > >> the
> > >>>> penalty box for that violation when we're playing a REST
> > tournament.
> > >> I
> > >>>> think the overlap between the community of SOAP 1.1 groupies and
> > >> REST
> > >>>> groupies is necessarily small (those who can live happily with
> > >> cognitive
> > >>>> dissonance) and therefore don't see much hope of keeping both
> sets
> > >>>> happy.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com -
> > >>>> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> > >>>>> bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Glen Daniels
> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 12:50 PM
> > >>>>> To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic response
> > >>>>> formulation
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> > >>>>>> You'll have to ask on axis-dev and see whether people object.
> > IMO
> > >> its
> > >>>>> a
> > >>>>>> decent compromise but there are more SOAP 1.1 fans on that
> list
> > >> than
> > >>>>> here!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> +1 from me for both the proposed solution and asking about it
> on
> > >>>>> axis-dev first.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> There is still a switch I can use in service.xml to disable POX
> > for
> > >> a
> > >>>>> service/operation, right?  So if I set that then I always get
> > SOAP
> > >> on a
> > >>>>> GET?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --Glen
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Keith Chapman wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> +1 for forgetting SOAP 1.1 and doing it .. .
> > >>>>>>> Great... Is this solution valid for Axis2 as well? If so I'll
> > go
> > >>>>> ahead
> > >>>>>>> and implement this in Axis2. If there are multiple accept
> > headers
> > >>>>> will
> > >>>>>>> use the first matching header.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>> Keith.
> > >>>>>>>> Sanjiva.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Jonathan Marsh wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> I'll throw out an idea - text/xml and application/xml would
> > map
> > >> to
> > >>>>> POX,
> > >>>>>>>>> application/soap+xml maps to SOAP 1.2, and we don't provide
> a
> > >> way
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>> do SOAP
> > >>>>>>>>> 1.1 at this point in the browser.  Eventually we could
> > register
> > >>>>>>>>> "application/data-format+xml" and a request of
> > >>>>>>>>> "application/data-
> > >>>>> format+xml;rddl=http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/r
> > >>>>>>>>> ddl.html" (is that actually allowed in an accept header?)
> > might
> > >>>>>>>>> identify
> > >>>>>>>>> soap 1.1.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com -
> > >>>>>>>>> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>> From: registry-dev-bounces at wso2.org [mailto:registry-dev-
> > >>>>>>>>>> bounces at wso2.org] On Behalf Of Keith Chapman
> > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:31 PM
> > >>>>>>>>>> To: registry-dev at wso2.org
> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Registry-dev] Accept types and dynamic
> > response
> > >>>>>>>>>> formulation
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Paul Fremantle wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> A while back Glen suggested we use Accept headers to
> > >>>>> automatically
> > >>>>>>>>>>> send the right thing back to the browser / requester. I
> was
> > a
> > >>>>> bit
> > >>>>>>>>>>> scared of this at the time :)
> > >>>>>>>>>> While trying to implement content negotiation in Axis2
> using
> > >> the
> > >>>>>>>>>> Accept
> > >>>>>>>>>> header I came across the follllowing issue. When a REST
> call
> > >>>>> (GET) is
> > >>>>>>>>>> sent using the browser the Accept header is
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> "Accept:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>
> >
> text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/pla
> > >>>>>>>>>> in;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5".
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Now what should the response be POX or soap11?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Obviously I'd like to map text/xml to SOAP1.1 and
> > >> application/xml
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> POX
> > >>>>>>>>>> but then the above request using the browser would return
> > SOAP
> > >>>>> 1.1.
> > >>>>>>>>>> (Which might not be user friendly and may mislead the
> user).
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Due to the above I haven't yet implemented this feature in
> > >> Axis2.
> > >>>>> Any
> > >>>>>>>>>> suggested workarounds or just drop the feature?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>>>>> Keith.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> However, I think I'm coming round to this. I guess one of
> > the
> > >>>>> key
> > >>>>>>>>>>> RESTful design patterns is to have the web UI the *same*
> > >> thing
> > >>>>> as the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> machine interface. I don't think we are there yet though
> I
> > >> guess
> > >>>>> we
> > >>>>>>>>>>> are getting closer. I suggest that we bash back and forth
> > >> some
> > >>>>> ideas
> > >>>>>>>>>>> about the exact URI design - in other words, what you see
> > if
> > >> you
> > >>>>> go
> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> each different URI and what those patterns are. Glen - I
> > >> think
> > >>>>> you
> > >>>>>>>>>>> need to look at the APP spec in detail first.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Paul
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Registry-dev mailing list
> > >>>>> Registry-dev at wso2.org
> > >>>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/registry-dev
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> Registry-dev mailing list
> > >>>> Registry-dev at wso2.org
> > >>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/registry-dev
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Registry-dev mailing list
> > >> Registry-dev at wso2.org
> > >> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/registry-dev
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Registry-dev mailing list
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> > >
> >
> > --
> > Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> > Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> > email: sanjiva at wso2.com; cell: +1 650 265 8311 | +94 77 787 6880
> >
> > "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Registry-dev mailing list
> > Registry-dev at wso2.org
> > http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/registry-dev
> 
> 
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